Thanks guys that is encouraging and I finally got a pic and in a way sad to say it doesnt portray what i mean because mainly the clean shading problems come mostly with doing the different planes in the face. But anyway this one i kinda like, but please ignore the hand. The one outstretched was actually holding another hand, and bothe were wearing the same color gloves, flourescent red so, I had to make something up. Any comments on shading, depth, anything that would help make it better. Thanks. Examples would be awesome, I love to see everyones work. O and yes I did that icon of me.